Newsletter

H.A.C.S. Newsletter – Editor: Bob Patrick

Newsletters will be posted online only. No printed or mailed versions.

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H.A.C.S Newsletter – March 2023

IT’s A HOOT TO SHOOT

A few months ago I quit my employment which was not by planned design. This meant that I had no plans for what some refer to as retirement. One day I took stock of a few Webley revolvers I had accumulated and never fired. On reflection that was a wonderful happening, as I discovered some things that could have proven injurious.

The first Webley was acquired in 2008 from my friend Joe Cooley and was the Webley Mark VI. It was in .455 Webley but had been shaved on the cylinder to accept half or full moon clips to take the 45 ACP ammunition. I never shot it; but being a “purist;’ I lusted for a Webley in the Mark VI .455 caliber that took the original ammunition. In 2011 I had my chance with a trade and a set of dies to roll my own ammunition. But it wasn’t until 2016, after my independence, that I started to look into shooting these Webleys.

The Webley is a top break revolver which was of WWI vintage. The two I now have been marked 1917 and 1918. Cases and bullets were difficult to find until a friend came to the rescue with an amble supply of both. I also had a cast bullet mold to cast the 250 grain lead bullets and a sizer that sized to .454 for the .455 bore of the Webley. But then a big bell rang that caused me pause. The 45 ACP bullets were .452 diameter which would cause the bullet to hop and skip down the barrel and would presumably shoot like poop. But worse than that was the mark on the side of one of the revolvers that said the gun was rated for six long tons (UK). That equates to 13,440 psi (pounds per square inch) whereas the 45 ACP rounds are rated from 18,000 to 23,000 psi. That means that every shot fired would be a proof load in the Webley using factory 45 ACP ammunition. A tour on the Internet revealed several blown up firearms because of this.

The shaving of the cylinders was a selling feature for the cheap importation of surplus firearms, and I am thinking a scheme to make a fast buck suggesting 45 ACP ammunition would work. It would for the most part, but then there is always that risk. This shaving by the way was done in the early 1950s. Bedside arms protection with typical factory ammo would be stout but beyond that ….. Oh Oh.

So a bit of research which suggested loads that were in the 12,000 psi range gave a start to reloading. The English felt that a heavy bullet moving at 600 – 700 fps was adequate for stopping power. I took my hand loads in both .455 and 45 Auto Rim and proceeded to shoot my Webley firearms and test the results. They both shot spectacularly well, very accurate; and the recoil was pleasant and not at all abusive. They were a hoot to shoot. Just a note: The Webley revolvers started out as model Mark I through Mark VI. Everything prior to the Mark VI are black powder handguns only. This relates to the metallurgy of the firearms themselves. Although tempting to shoot using smokeless powder, it will never happen for the Mark I and Mark II revolvers I have. No need to get a boot from the shoot.

Just a note: The Webley revolvers started out as model Mark I through Mark VI. Everything prior to the Mark VI are black powder handguns only. This relates to the metallurgy of the firearms themselves. Although tempting to shoot using smokeless powder, it will never happen for the Mark I and Mark II revolvers I have. No need to get a boot from the shoot.

 

 ANTIQUES ARMS GAZETTE

Newsletter of Old Guns Canada, Delta BC

Volumes 1, 2 & 3

https://www.oldgunscanada.com/antique-arms-gazette-archive

       

All Members please note:

HACS Membership & renewals are $40 per year available at the Membership Desk at all our shows.

Memberships may be renewed by mail with a $40 cheque and self addressed and stamped return envelope but there could be up to 3 months delay depending on when you mailed it as they will not be processed until the next show.  Our one-day shows are bi-monthly on Sundays from 9am to 2pm.

 

Check out our website for show dates       hacsbc.ca 

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE Please read…  I’m sure there are members who are not getting the newsletter because I don’t have their email addresses. If you know of a member in this situation, please tell them to email me crescentknifeworks@gmail.com

 

HACS NEWSLETTER AD SPACE  Send Ads to crescentknifeworks@gmail.com

 

Canadian Firearms Safety Courses & Conservation Outdoor Recreation Education Courses & Exams. – Certified Examiner – Contact Al Simmons 604 291-1952.

 

OLD GUNS CANADA (https://www.oldgunscanada.com) is Canada’s largest website for antique handguns. My newsletter reaches over 1000 collectors across the country, and the website gets over 15,000 visits each month. I am trying to compile a directory of services specifically for collectors of antique guns:

• Parts
• Repair & restoration service
• Expertise / expert advice
• Obsolete ammo
• Buy, sell, trade

 

If you want to be included in this directory, please contact me at cakluftinger@gmail.com or call me at 778-386-6686.

 

Wanted – Pocket Knives made in the U.S., England, (Sheffield) Germany, Italy Sweden, or France. Need to be in excellent to good condition. Fair prices paid in cash. See me at the show or send pictures. crescentknifeworks@gmail.com

 

HACS Show dates for 2023.

Jan 22 9AM – 2PM Evergreen Hall, Chilliwack. Busy show with a great turnout!

Mar 18 9AM – 5PM Heritage Park, Chilliwack.

Mar 19 9AM – 3PM Heritage Park.

May 28 9AM – 2PM Evergreen Hall.

July 16 9AM – 2PM Evergreen Hall.

Sept 10 9AM – 2PM Evergreen Hall.

Nov 18 9AM – 4PM Evergreen Hall.

Nov 19 9AM – 2PM Evergreen Hall.

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H.A.C.S Newsletter – February 2023

ACCUMULATIONS

As I reach a pinnacle of maturity (old age), I hear my peers in the firearms and knife communities’ anguish over the accumulation of items that they have acquired over many years. The collection had merit in the earlier days; but now, with maturity, we must now face the dilemma of its disposal. I hear many say that they think they should get rid of their items and not burden their heirs with its disposal. Most say that their children have no interest in the collection and fear that if the kids get the items that they will dispose of them for pennies on the dollar. That can be upsetting, but why should one care when they will be taking a trip to the stars?

This is not words of woe, but more a factual situation that many are faced with. There are no solutions save for the one that is the resolution made by oneself.

There is another factor that presents itself, as much of what we have accumulated is not as popular to the younger generation. That S&W revolver or that old military rifle has little appeal to the polymer handgun group and the black gun circle. Our historical heritage of a firearm is not even noted by those today. If you try to educate the kids on the reason for the item in a historical vein, I suggest you take that education to your dog for a better appreciation for the talk. The dog will at least wag its tail.

Taking the items to a seller or dealer is discouraging, disappointing, and insulting, as the price you will be offered is not close to the price you paid. That is a bit understandable; since the dealer must turn the item for a profit because a loss would not be good for his business. Also, he might have to wait a millennia before the right person comes in to purchase it. Taking a lower price is demoralizing; but you did rid yourself of the item. Isn’t that the point?

So as you read this you no doubt are looking for a solution. I do not have one for you other than commiserating with you on the dilemma. My accumulation will be with me until I can no longer use it to my advantage. I enjoy shooting every firearm that I have. I enjoy reading about every item even though I thought I knew everything about it. I enjoy researching each item and educating others by writing or telling people about the product.

So when the day comes where it will not serve me, I will dust off the items and be happy that the collection will go to my son whether he wants it or not. If he gives it away or chooses to enjoy like I have, that is his choice. All I know is that I will enjoy it to the end.

This article was inspired by my friend Paul Wellborn who had a collection of antique firearms and knives that put many museums to shame. I talked to him often about the collection he had; and until the last day, he retained

every piece of it. It was sad to watch the parsing of the collection, but it was his wish to enjoy and not worry about the after. He knew but did not care; and he was good with that until the end.

    

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR WOULD FIT NICELY RIGHT IN THIS SPACE OPEN HERE.

BUT ALAS…….

NONE HAVE COME IN.

 

NEWSLETTER 0F OLD GUNS CANADA,DELTA BC VOL. 1 NO. 1

Antique Guns and the Law

First off, do not take this as being legal advice, because I am not a lawyer. I have studied the “Regulations Prescribing Antique Firearms” SOR/98-464 and import my antiques based on these regulations. In Canada, a firearm is deemed an antique if: 1. It was manufactured before 1898. 2. and it is a matchlock, wheel lock, flintlock, cap-and-ball, or cartridge gun in a caliber which is no longer commercially manufactured. The exceptions to the cartridges are all .22’s, .32 Short Colt, .32 Long Colt, .32 S&W short and long, 32-30 Winchester, .38 S&W, .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, 28-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester and .45 Colt. Handguns with barrels of less than 4 inches in any of the above calibers would be prohibited, no matter how old they are. Longer barrels would make them restricted. If the age cannot be established then the gun would be either restricted or prohibited, no matter what the caliber, even cap-and-ball, flint, match, etc. Rifles and shotguns are either antique (if above criteria apply), or subject to the owner having a PAL. They would not be restricted or prohibited unless they were automatics. It is interesting to note that no match-, wheel- or flintlock long arm is ever considered a firearm, regardless of age. Handguns of this variety would fall under the same rules as other handguns. So, how does all this affect the collector? It is surprising how easily the unaware collector can get into trouble… take the Colt New Line, for example. Made from about 1874 to 1880, it would be an antique, even with it’s 2 ½ inch barrel – unless it was a .22 (prohibited), .32 center fire (prohibited) or .38 center fire (prohibited.). If it were a .32 or .38 rim fire, it would be antique, and no license would be required. So, you can see that what may seem to be antique could easily turn out to be a prohibited weapon. I have had several occasions where the manufacture of a gun could not be established without doubt (many of the “suicide specials” have no serial numbers or maker’s name) and I had to return the guns to my vendors. Colt New Line .32 rim fire Once the gun has been classified as an antique it is no longer treated as a firearm under the definitions of the Criminal Code and anyone can own it, regardless of age or PAL possession. The regulations do caution the owner however to treat antiques with the same respect and common sense as “real” guns. This means that you cannot walk around town toting your six-shooter or leave it loaded on the kitchen table. As an importer, I run into the problem of having to prove the age and caliber of the guns I import almost every time I cross the border. If I do not have all my documentation in order, my shipments may get seized and held until I can prove the age and caliber of the guns. This involves taking pictures and measurements and submitting them to the RCMP Firearms Technical Division for review. That process can take weeks, depending on their workload. Once I have confirmation that the gun is antique, I can import it without problems. Most of my guns are accompanied by the RCMP Antique Declaration when I sell them. If you plan on bringing an antique gun across the border, remember it is YOUR responsibility to prove its age and caliber, not the customs officer’s. If you cannot satisfy their requirements, they are not obliged to let you cross the border with it… New Shipments arrive monthly and although I always plan to notify my customers, lately they have sold so fast I did not have a chance to publicize their arrival. I will be sending out notices again soon, however. The Story of Lucius W. Pond.  I will have a very early Lucius W. Pond Army belt revolver (SN#195) for sale in a while, and I thought this a good time to share the dramatic story of its inventor and maker, Lucius W. Pond. I first learned about Pond after I had bought another, later model at an auction in Illinois. Lucius was born on April 20, 1826, in Hubbardston Mass. and at age 20 moved to Worcester, Mass. where he was a prominent machinist and tool maker. He rose to become a “pillar of the community” founding a church and supporting charitable work in his city. He entered civic politics and represented his ward in the city council. In the early 1860’s, with the American civil war looming on the horizon, Pond ventured into the gun making business, hoping to secure lucrative government contracts for small arms. His Army belt revolver in .32 rim fire was well received, and he sold a few of them to the union army however at that time the Rollin White patent of 1855 was still owned by Smith & Wesson, and it was Rollin White’s contractual obligation to defend the patent against infringement. White sued Pond, and after a lengthy (and costly) litigation it was held by the court that Pond did indeed infringe upon the Rollin White patent. He had to pay a hefty settlement to S&W, and to add to his humiliation, his remaining stock of belt pistols, some 4,500 of them, had to be marked “MANUF’D FOR SMITH AND WESSON, PAT’D APRIL 5, 1855”. A royalty for each of these remaining guns had to be paid to Smith and Wesson as well. Pond designed and built one other model, which aimed to circumvent the White patent, but it was not very successful. Ponds entire foray into the gun making business was a disaster. Not only did the war fail to produce the contracts he had hoped for, but the deep economic recession following five years of destruction and unconscionable government spending on the war would drive Lucius Pond to committing a string of desperate acts… Lucius W. Pond ca. 1875 In early October of 1875 Pond suddenly disappeared from his home and business in Worcester. A man matching his description was observed aboard the steamer “Providence”, headed for New York. Upon its arrival however, only a coat, hat and pair of shoes were found, which were later identified as being his property. It was quickly assumed that he had either committed suicide or been pushed overboard by one of his victims – it was unveiled, at the same time of his disappearance, that he had been defrauding a large group of customers and even his friends. Pond had been forging checks by erasing the intended amounts and replacing them with much larger sums. At first, it was assumed that Pond had met an untimely demise, until a Pinkerton agent spotted him in Windsor, Ontario. The hunt was on. Pinkerton’s chased Pond clear across the country, finally catching up with him in San Francisco just as he was about to embark a ship to Australia. Pond was arrested and returned to Massachusetts where he was charged with 12 counts of forgery and uttering forged promissory notes. The total of his theft amounted to over $40,000 (about $1 million in current dollars) although the real sum was never found out. Many of his victims did not come forward or refused to testify against Pond on account of his stellar reputation and standing in the community. Some were also embarrassed that they had been swindled by Pond so easily. Pond was sentenced on three counts, receiving a total of fourteen years in prison. This must have come as an extreme shock to the former councillor, Massachusetts senator, bank director, and founder of the local Methodist Church. Prison life in the 1870’s was extremely harsh, and a fourteen-year sentence could just as easily have amounted to a death sentence. Pond served seven years of his sentence, and through the relentless efforts of his family and friends, including some of his victims, the governor of the state granted him a pardon in December of 1882. Pond returned to his home, a sick and broken man. He remained quietly active in his church, returned as superintendent to the L.W. Pond Machine Tool Company together with his son, but eventually succumbed to the illness he undoubtedly developed while in prison, on May 21, 1889. His victims and persecutors, along with his friends and family always maintained that Pond acted out of desperation, only wanting to save the business he was so proud of, and never intended to use the stolen money for his own benefit or for “speculative purposes”. In the end, it was seen as a tragedy, and the man received more sympathy than criticism. The Lefaucheux M1862 triple Action Revolver. Eugene LeFaucheux, France’s counterpart to Sam Colt, was an accomplished gun maker, inventor, and industrialist. The legacy begun by his father, Casimir LeFaucheux, inventor, and patent holder of the pin fire cartridge, was carried on by a visionary son, who saw the potential of organized mass-production to take his father’s small shop to an international level, producing many thousand times more product than his father had ever dreamed of. Perhaps Eugene’s greatest success was his legendary M1854 single action revolver which, at one time, was the single most popular military and police side arm in the world. M1854’s was carried by armed forces in France, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Korea, Japan, Sweden, Russia, Norway as well as South America and both sides in the US civil war. While the M1854 may have been his most successful gun, the M1862 was his finest invention. Famous in France as the “Triple Action”, this revolver has a unique feature allowing the shooter to cock the hammer by way of a slow trigger pull which locks the hammer in the cocked position until the shooter completes the pull and releases the hammer.

This allows for more careful aim and more controlled release of the hammer. A connecting rod actuated by the trigger engages a secondary sear on the back of the hammer to release the lock. The gun also works in conventional single and double action. The concept was not new, of course; Eeben Starr’s M1858 had a similar feature, except it took two separate triggers to achieve what Faucheux could do with one. Starr’s design was also more complicated and prone to failure whereas Faucheux’s was simple, even fool-proof. M1862’s is rarely seen in today’s collections, and few would recognize one for what it really is.

Colt New Line .32 rim fire

M1862 in 12mm pin fire

Lucius W. Pond ca. 1875

Belgian-made M1854 by Rocour of Liege

 

The 2-day show is next month, March 18 &19. If you would like to place want ads into the HACS classified ad space, please get them in before March 8^that the latest. Ads after that date will be placed into the April Newsletter.

Send to Bob Patrick crescentknifeworks@gmail.com

 

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR.

Please send letters to the editor to the above email address.

We have hundreds of members with expertise on every kind of firearm ever made. Knowledge of ammunition, knives of every kind, swords, and many more related items. Share your knowledge and enlighten and educate other HACS members.

PLEASE NOTE:  I’m quite sure there are members who are not getting the newsletter because I don’t have their email addresses. If you know of a member in this situation, please tell them to email me crescentknifeworks@gmail.com

HACS NEWSLETTER AD SPACE  Send Ads to crescentknifeworks@gmail.com

Canadian Firearms Safety Courses & Conservation Outdoor Recreation Education Courses & Exams. – Certified Examiner – Contact Al Simmons 604 291-1952.

 

OLD GUNS CANADA (https://www.oldgunscanada.com) is Canada’s largest website for antique handguns. My newsletter reaches over 1000 collectors across the country, and the website gets over 15,000 visits each month. I am trying to compile a directory of services specifically for collectors of antique guns:

• Parts
• Repair & restoration service
• Expertise / expert advice
• Obsolete ammo
• Buy, sell, trade

 

If you want to be included in this directory, please contact me at cakluftinger@gmail.com or call me at 778-386-6686.

 

Wanted – Pocket Knives made in the U.S., England, (Sheffield) Germany, Italy Sweden, or France. Need to be in excellent to good condition. Fair prices paid in cash. See me at the show or send pictures. crescentknifeworks@gmail.com

 

HACS Show dates for 2023.

Jan 22 9AM – 2PM Evergreen Hall, Chilliwack. Busy show with a great turnout!

Mar 18 9AM – 5PM Heritage Park, Chilliwack.

Mar 19 9AM – 3PM Heritage Park.

May 28 9AM – 2PM Evergreen Hall.

July 16 9AM – 2PM Evergreen Hall.

Sept 10 9AM – 2PM Evergreen Hall.

Nov 18 9AM – 4PM Evergreen Hall.

Nov 19 9AM – 2PM Evergreen Hall.

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Letters to the Editor

I would like to have you, the HACS membership send letters to the editor.

1. Keep it short and succinct, 250 words or less. About 2 paragraphs would be good.
2. Meaningful to the membership.
3. Appropriate language.
4. Must be a paid up member of HACS and include your name which will be published.

Mail letters to editor to:

Bob Patrick, 12642 24A Avenue, South Surrey, BC, V4A 8H9

Or e-mail letters to:

crescentknifeworks@gmail.com 

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